Given the fact that we are right in the middle of testing, I thought that this topic was appropriate! On page 32 the book states that "there are probably students in your class right now who could have taken any end of the year standardized test at the start of the year and scored at or above 95th percentile"
So.....
1. Do you agree with that statement, why or why not?
2. If you agree, what do you do with those kiddos that rightfully know the existing material (gifted or not)?
3. If you don't agree, would you be willing to test your students to find out if this statement is true?
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1. I do agree with this statement; however, I do feel that there are very few of our RCMS students that could do so.
ReplyDelete2. In all honesty, I do not have any of those students in my classes, as I teach inclusion/regular mathematics.
3. I do like the idea of testing students (even if only for one year) at the beginning of the school year to use as a baseline for the end of the year test.
Marisa: It would be interesting to see. I think that ISTEEP may help us with this. I haven't really looked into it. I actually think that we would have quite a few at our school. Currently we have 118 students in the gifted program out of 600 +/- students. I don't think that all of them would do that well, but a great majority would.
ReplyDeleteI think we need to consider them on an individual basis. You have also helped me. I forgot to check on previous aims scores and will so tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteA beginning of the year exam would be great, but what content areas would it cover? I teach over 160 objectives in one semester of language arts alone. I am sure the other content areas cover at least the same amount. I do not believe it is possible to test a child on every single objective the government demands we teach.
ReplyDeleteI think we forget that kids are not machines. They are not some type of super human computer we can program with massive amounts of data and then hope they will reach some artificial potential that will change mankind. They come to school each day and glean a few small morsels of knowledge. Hopefully, if they are exposed to the right kind of knowledge they begin to connect some of the dots and create their own knowledge. Isn't it our overall goal to help them become independent thinkers (instead of drones that know only what the government wants them to know)?
I do think there are one or two children who could pass some sort of standardized test at the beginning of the school year, but I do not think it will tells us what is really important, which is what do we need to teach each child that will help them become a happy independent adult, willing to contrite in a positive way to our society?
My question is this . . . has any of our students aced the AIMS test and could they do it year in and year out? I seriously doubt it. If we start believing that gifted kids already know it all, then we cease teaching them the most important concept we try to instill in every child . . . to become lifelong learners.
You make extremely valid points. Yes we have several students who have received scores in the 95th percentile or better.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that we would ever want to assume that they know it all. BUT the simple fact is most of these kiddos are bored. Whether we pull out the bells and whistles and stand on our heads to entertain them will not change that fact. If we find what level we need to teach to them based on their unique ability level, we will help create an environment that leads to a happy independent adult who is eager to learn.
My personal opinion (and please feel free to disagree) is that what we are doing right now turns them into machines. Everyone doing the same thing every day. They must write the same way, think the same way, talk the same way and pass the same test. By pre-assessing the students and teaching to their holes and allowing them to learn more rather than preparing them for a test we can accomplish our goal: lifelong learners with a passion for learning. What do you think?
Our school is graded according to how well they perform in AIMS. Like a heart/lung test, it measures how well an age group beats/breathes per second as compared to the norm. Yup, we are biological machines.
ReplyDeleteBut if these kiddos are already in the 95th percentile or better they will do well on the AIMS. Don't you think?
ReplyDeleteI think the key is that once we have determined that they know the content we have to sit down and carry them beyond that point. Take the content and work with the student to develop and inquiry based lesson that takes them beyond what they already know. Create 2 or 3 challenging, global questions for them to research. This teaches them to develp the habit themselves as they learn and moves them to a life long learner attitude.
ReplyDeleteYou stated it so much better than I could have Ted!
ReplyDeleteThe purpose of the common assessments that we have been working on is to determine student knowledge. If we pretest on units (quarters, whatever) we should be using those tests to help us determine what we need to teach. If the majority of the students know what you are going to teach, why teach it? Move on to material that they don't know. We have a lot of tests, we just need to use them appropriately. Most elem. tchrs. give spelling pretests and if they students score well (usually 100%) they don't have to do the test again. I always told my kids to practice the words they didn't know and try to increase by a few a day. When I was self contained I generated all of my spelling words from the material that we were studying in the other subject areas (including math)...that makes it more relevant. Also, in reading the students created their own dictionaries where they wrote down words that they came across that they didn't know...they then did a variety of activities with their words. As Teddy said, the critical skill is knowing when the word isn't correctly spelled...of course most of us have spell check.
ReplyDeleteThe other thing that I have found is that w/Gifted students they are usually interested in something until they "get it". After that they see no point in continuing to work on the project/assignment etc. They also often do not see the point in having to show the teacher that they do get it...
Cindy: I love what you said about gifted kids being interested until they get it. I know several gifted kids who become passionate about something that doesn't come easy to them. For example music. If they do great academically, but are not challenged, they seem to gravitate to something that doesn't come naturally to them and they give that 100% until they master that. Whereas a "normal" child will do what they excel at because that is their comfort zone.
ReplyDeleteHere's the thing: let's say a student entering third grade can solve 823-279 correctly on a test, and subtracting three-digit numbers is the third grade standard.
ReplyDeleteAre we positive that this child understands subtraction well? Or is it possible that correct subtraction answers can be achieved algorithmically without deeper understanding about the whys behind subtraction and how it works?
That's my only fear behind automatically advancing students past material based on a standardized test score.
Mr.Pullen: I agree and I think that as teachers it is our job to find that out before automatically pushing them along. I think that some kids are just really good test takers, but do not have the information cemented yet. We absolutely wouldn't want to push them ahead. I am hoping that our roles will soon change from teaching content to facilitating learning at each childs unique learning ability. What do you think?
ReplyDeleteInstead of pushing, we can simply expand, like what Marlene is already doing in this class as well as in Achieve. Not skipping any critical objective, they simply broaden their knowledge base.
ReplyDeleteTake those ham radios for example - I will be taking the course starting Friday evening for 7 weeks through EAC. To some extent this might be for my benefit... but I truly must because of the spark of interest I have seen in 2 of my students. This began with a story I read in class called "Informative Narrative" (objective/part of standards) and they want more. Knowing more myself, I will be able to effectively guide them better.
I am so excited for you Wanda! I love learning new things and I think it is great for our students to know that we are lifelong learners and we have a passion for learning. Every Wednesday the kids ask me what I learned at ASU because the first day that I got back I shared with them and now they are just excited about what I am learning as I am. Gotta love it!
ReplyDeleteI've taught gifted kids (top 1%) in a state mandated special education program for 25 years. In my large suburban district I haven't seen a whole lot of authenitic learning going on for gifted kids in the elementary classroom. NCLB and scripted reading programs have actually made it worse.
ReplyDeleteSometimes it a matter of control--the teacher has/wants the control and doesn't like the idea that there may be kiddos who need 'different' than what they teach. Here's a reminder (from Carol Tomlinson) it's not your job to teach the grade level curriculum, it's your job to make sure the kiddos know it. There is a big difference--assessment is the key.
I ranted about this a while back http://anotsodifferentplace.blogspot.com/2008/04/differentiation-followup-mini-rant.html
You are so right. I find myself often saying aren't we here for the kids?
ReplyDelete